The Bitcoin Representation
 

Full disclosure and disclaimer: I own Bitcoin and this thread is not for financial advice.

An objective financial analysis of Bitcoin based on accepted economic metrics reveals that Bitcoin's value as an asset is incredibly high. This is verified by analyses conducted by leading investment firms Fidelity, Ark Invest, Grayscale and others who conservatively value 1 Bitcoin at USD100K, at least. I thought these guys are nuts, but I started to do a deep dive into it, and as I went down the crypto rabbit hole, I realised Bitcoin is priceless.

Of course I then bought my Bitcoin.

What follows is my rationale for why 1 Bitcoin is worth not just the already incredible valuation of say 100K, but millions upon millions of dollars to long term hodlers.

On the surface, Bitcoin's asset value comes from the fact that it is scarce - there will only ever be 21M coins; it is transportable - you have an online wallet on your phone; and it can't be confiscated by officials - it is decentalised blockchain ledger code. Those fundamentals make Bitcoin a safe store of value and is how they arrive at over 100K valuation. However, there is something that standard analytics do not account for - and that is what Bitcoin represents. It's representional value is akin to a great work of art such as the Mona Lisa or a Van Gogh, and it is that symbolic status and cultural significance that makes Bitcoin incalculable in dollar terms.

Is there a symbol that captures in itself the essence of the digital age? Think about it. What article of ownership exists now that captures the culture of the digital revolution. What single reference of ownership expresses that feeling, holds the emotion of it... words can not express that captured essence which I yearn so to express.

Bitcoin. Not the 'money of the internet' as it is called, but the encapsulated meaning of the era in its most apt ownable form.

The similarities between Bitcoin and priceless art is uncanny, not in form, but in function. Priceless art begins with the story of the artist - or it is preserved form an ancient era. The 'artist' who created Bitcoin is known only by his username, Satoshi Nakamoto. This so perfectly represents internet culture. The 'real person' remains unknown since we use pseudonyms to protect our identities. This shroud gives Bitcoin an air of mystery, and long into the future people will still be asking 'who was Satoshi Nakamoto?'. He will be remembered (and already is) as a genius because his accomplishment was so truly remarkable; and as a revolutionary who subverted something so fundamental it only exists in realms of ideology. It becomes so apparent as the world transitions to digital currency that Satoshi's legend will be eternalised. Because he is unknown, he will be remembered as myth and the story of the man behind the creation promises to be among history's most compelling.

This is where the intangible value case for Bitcoin lies. It has the most intruiging backstory, it represents an era, it re-conceives money and it revolutionises ideology. It's really something, and since diving down this rabbit hole, I feel as if I own something so spectacular that only the wildest of imaginations could comprehend its intrinsic underlying worth.

Hello Gem,: )

The devils advocate here,you have one foot in the door.
Don't you see the attachment?
I am is in two minds.
And in that and commiserations,
I am sorry.

Here is a short documentary that captures the dream, the imaginable potential, the way it evolves without being controlled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA49Dh1-NPY

It's possible, you have a deep perception, mine is quite shallow given how little I know about the inner workings of bitcoin, but perhaps not shallow, taken that I have some knowledge about the world, institutions and people. Bitcoin creates a more integral security for money. But bitcoin is still too young, its in a pool of potential. And the way it works side by side with computational power, is to source and route computational power to produce tech based solutions to businesses. I'm with it because I think that a lot of institutions of fields are too dense and information rich, i.e. law. And so we need tech based databases (libraries) and a.i. to be able to search for solutions faster.. It's funny cuz its like, the invention of the calculator. We no longer preform everything by hand and memory and the force of attention, or to wait for ideas, mistakes and epiphanies. But P probably does not = to NP. A.i. driven law for example would still be 2 computers against each other with the spirit of the opposing lawyers. If you imagine computation as calculations and pathways to solve problems of the "what if" which is by or within the means of current legislation unchanging, then it may even make cases longer than usual. P=NP is about how fast you can solve problems. I think while bitcoin is hard to decrypt it will always remains possible to decrypt. It would just need to be super complex. As far as Im aware mining bitcoin helps create solutions towards its integrity? Oh yes, because the transactions are not even recorded after the calculation is made to produce the encryption, or rather the calculation (algorithm is complex). So what I'm learning and realizing now is that, we want our currency to be unpredictable. Because its by observation that people corrupt things. Ah. Privacy.

Problems that arise are within tradition and businesses.

I'm not an expert on cryptography and have limited understanding of cryptocurrency markets, but since diving down the Bitcoin rabbithole, I've entered the wonderland of Satoshi's vision - and there is no coming back.

This video covers the diverse concept of Bitcoin and the blockchain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGx4FWS7zE4

It is not how we have imagined money up until now. It is an innovation so profound that we haven't begun to conceive of the uses it has. Bitcoin is a primitive blockchain, but it spawned advances in the tech that are capable of fulfilling the vision. Bitcoin was the genesis that represents the crypto ecosystem, and has become the Gold of that environment. As the governments of the world release their blockchain currencies, Bitcoin will be recognised as the origin coin, and no matter what the officials say, everyone will know Satoshi was the visionary and Bitcoin will be a 'collectible' of priceless value.

This is my thesis, which started as an investment thesis, but as I started to understand the meaning, the history, the legend of Satoshi in context with the coming digital world, I could see quite clearly that owning 1 bitcoin today will literally be a treasure by the end of the century. Hence I wish to open wallets for each of my nieces and nephews so that they wil have Bitcoin and prosper.

In celebration of decentralised value, Bitcoin reached all time highs last night.


Of course I have gone deep into the value case for the coin and understand the traditional value case in financial terms, but I have also developed a more abstract theory about the priceless value of Bitcoin as a symbol of cultural meaning, a meaning which is only becoming deeper, and even when a coin is worth 100K, it will continue to become more profound and eventually reach a priceless status.


I'm just here to post this documentary as a celebration of last night's record Bitcoin breaking price.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQei15AF4Tw

It is imaginary in that you can't sense it. It emerges from computer code as an imaginary abstraction.

It has no object of value or beauty. Its is a function, but not a thing which functions. It is a function without a form, yet generates a sense of ownership and value.

It has proven that value is not intrinsic to material, but a conceptual and emotional artifact. It effectively captures the very essence of value - the underlying function than generates value itself.

It gains value and loses value - spiking up and crashing down - but the underlying function of value generation is so concise that over time is increasingly treasured at a phenomenal rate - regardless of it being entirely unnecessary, let alone completely intangible.

one could say exactly the same thing about gold and silver, and yet one doesn't.

It is pretty much the same as gold and silver, but only different in how it represents the virtual world in a digital age. The metals have form and are tangible, whereas the Bitcoin is only represented by a brand symbol, having no substance, shape, colour, tempreature, texture.

Hence I think Bitcoin is of purely philosophical value, and although value is somewhat arbitrary, there are ingredients such as scarcity or rarity in relation to desire or need that go into making something valuable. That is abstractly translated into dollar terms, the number of which objectively measure the supply:demand ratio. We do not only buy metals or Bitcoins because it is desired so much today, but because we think it will desired even more than it is now in the future, and hence be more expensive if we were ever to sell it.

That's true for what we think of as 'assets', but whereas metals offer something to own, Bitcoin translates the philosophical elements of ownership into an algorithm and captures it in immutable mathematical code.

I remember vividly we had just finished a full energy efficiency installation at a remote data center some high volume of LED lights & adjustable valves on condenser pumps were installed to essentially revamp our power usage at a 20,000sqf facility, a smaller center for Seattle. One of our tenants was interested in some volume of the floor for their mining operation, that we quickly Vetoed. Simply because of the reality they were there to burn Heat energy to make a profit, I think of traditional mining, well this clearly has a direction and is it up?

What are the long term repercussion in a quantum state if we are essentially trading equipment volume for heat energy to accumulate a fluctuating asset? Even if it can become valuable, essentially it has to botch the scarcity or demand value somehow to get people to use it, hence the limited quantity. Well the cost of star heat is enormous although I don’t necessarily trade it for currency(Some probably do). Will mining always be a medium for exchange? In theory, if the times during when it was implemented remain as a high value in our society. This goes into Value economics instantly, if it’s clean, was intended for good productive value & can be verified by enough people consistently as in “yes we got rich and we added to humanity in a positive way” then the legacy will remain above the threshold and people will continue to respect it & it’s value. Plenty of traded currencies no longer exist with powerful faces on the front because of their directional leadership attribution.

My main concern is when they got the instant Veto from operations, running hundreds of data centers. How above ground can a mining operation propel a society above ground? Who is leading the face of the currency? How can this be universalized in a positive value?

I think of the realities here in Washington state where Amazon thrives, although not everyone here is actually happy about it, because of the volume of small businesses that are effected. The currency pools and quality of life is well influenced, and not necessarily to any one person, hubris is often reality, while my experience errs on the side of fluctuating time physics. Then we have Alibaba from China, China took the backseat to the internet, watched patiently, & they manage to set up the highest volume sales day globally, and they did it with a more small business friendly network. Leadership is always learning.

CEOs will continually represent their total network value even long after they have moved onto other avenues of leadership. who will keep the name of the currency alive & thriving?

I will hold faith in consciousness because of those involved, that the directional leadership of the owner of that currency is seeking to exemplify positive attributes to humanity. That they Go Vegetarian, Go Vegan, & maybe try some cabbage. (Can someone cc Zion)

Namaste
-Jesse

That's wild. It's a quality post, and therefore an internet rarity.
The currency needs A LOT of electricity to drive the mines which create the blocks - a LOOOOTTT!.
It is extremely inefficient on face value, but I think less energy is used to mint 10K of Bitcoin than energy used to produce 10K in Gold.

For a miner, expenses are the cost of electricity, space leasing and depreciation of hardware. The mining machines produce a ton of heat and make a lot of noise.
If the price of a coin falls too low the mines run at a short term loss (I think it's somewhere like 12-15K per coin break even, not sure) Everytime there is a 'Halvening' (when the rate of supply is halved) it becomes more expensive to mine a coin.

This leads to a major problem because as the reward in coins for mining becomes less viable, miners increasingly rely on transaction fees. When issuance of new coins ceases at 21M coins, miners will be reliant on transaction fees alone, which will make using the coins for smaller transactions prohibitively expensive.

Hence, I do not see Bitcoin as energy efficient, nor as sustainable asset in its current form, because it requires increasing amounts of energy over time to mine. As mining becomes impossibly expensive, and terminates in the future, miners' bitcoin rewards will have to be made up for in transactions to keep the currency afloat.

It all relies on the coins becoming extremely valuable, and ultimately, a high velocity of transactions.

Cathie Wood is CEO of ARK Invest which runs the most successful index funds on NASDAQ. She is like an investment celebrity or something these days, and I'm a fan--boy. This video is her commentary on Bitcoin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNbg4TTpuw

My interest isn't so much in the business case. The business case is compelling, but the subtext of the narrative is much more interesting. That subtext is a story about how Bitcoin finds cultural significance and becomes integral to social systems globally. There is something behind the Bitcoin itself. It is capturing humanity in some way, and it's only apt that I can't quite put my finger on it - though I can sense it is there.

Constant mining for Bitcoin would be the perfect bride for the groom.

I was just reading into the issue of Bitcoin's energy consumption. Bitcoin uses a lot of electricity so people are concerned about its sustainability. The way things are currently done, Bitcoin isn't a sustainable asset because as it scales to mass adoption, increasing electricity is requited to process the growing number of transactions.

This is forcing Bitcoin to adapt in some unexpected ways. On the surface, just moving toward renewable energy is the superficial conversation, but there is a deeper discussion about Bitcoin becoming integrated with the renewable energy sector.

The main problem with renewables like wind and solar is the intermittent supply - No wind no power, no sun no power - so they require energy storage systems, like, charge up batteries which the sun shines so there is stored energy to use at night. This means if there is a lot of sun/wind, all the batteries are fully charged, and any additional energy is just siphoned off and wasted, and the energy suppliers make no revenue on that excess.

They want the revenue, of course, so there is a discussion going on about solar/wind renewable energy suppliers investing in Bitcoin mining computers and run them on the otherwise wasted excess energy so that they can earn Bitcoin using the siphoned off and otherwise wasted electricity. This makes such renewable energy suppliers more competitive, which ultimately leads to more affordable costs to consumers.

There is at least one energy company currently raising money to invest in Bitcoin mining computers, so obviously they have researched it and found that it is viable and profitable, and it looks to me like Bitcoin will shift from being a huge energy consumer to being an integral component of renewable energy supply eco systems. I believe this something Tesla is looking into.

The story of Satoshi Nakamoto is interesting. We already know the identity of him. Bitcoin has been kept artificially at a lower block size, thus the fork into two now three separate coins. Only one of them follows the protocol outlined by the white paper. The others, simply profit off the higher transaction fees which results in a slower more expensive network.

Of course, in my estimation, that won't matter for a very long time. People will still make quite a bit of money if they invest in Bitcoin or whatever currency they feel will go up. Because it is all in a speculation phase right now. Not nearly enough organizations accept Bitcoin, yet people know that one day there will be a reckoning, and they are preparing for it.

Crypto will pick up the pieces where central banks have fallen. Putting them out of the way will certainly create a more efficient currency system that does not require a middle man and does not have any inflation. It will allow a great deal of abundance for many people.

The idea that it is energy inefficient won't have any effect on its expansion. People will simply use their crypto wealth to provide them with any energy that they need to continue mining, anyway they can. Both unfortunate and fortunate.

This is only an intermediary step though. There is also the possibility of going back to a type of gold/silver standard alongside crypto, but of course it all will be phased out for something more... well, human in the near-distant future.

No one really knows who he is. Some have claimed to be him and others are suspected of being him, but no one can prove anything or they choose not to. Yes. Within one generation most companies, all investment funds and even a number national treasuries will have Bitcoin. That's key. Decentralised, permissionless peer 2 peer. Bitcoin will integrate as electricity companies attach mines to stablise the grid and capitalise on otherwise wasted excess power capacity. When nations switch to digital currencies, Bitcoin will be a unofficial quazi-'gold standard'. Bitcoin will be integrated with energy supply, which makes it a new form of global reserve, and market cap will be bigger than gold and silver combined.Yes, this will be the next phase of the money system and eventually the wold will change and it will no longer work. Then we go into a new phase of quantum data or whatever it is.

If bit-coin is such an energy hog, why would people want to switch to bit-coin?

Then there is El Salvador which wants to build a city by a volcano funded by bit-coin and use the heat from the volcano to generate power for mining, etc. The city apparently will only have a value added tax and money from mining to fund the operation(s). Should be interesting to see if it ever gets off the 'ground'.

ElSalvador is selling Bitcoin backed bonds wort 1M USD. 500M for Bitcoin treasury and 500M for Bitcoin mining. The big Bitcoin whale are going to buy the bonds for a 6% return.

The mining income mitigates the risk from Bitcoin price fluctuation, and the Bitcoin city they are building will generate massive tourism from Bitcoiners who are very rich. Lots of jobs created. The real estate sales will be worth Billions mostly paid in Bitcoin...

It's a pretty good idea. ElSalavdor will soon own lots, and lots, of Bitcoin...

The reason it is a smart play is Bitcoin is starting to be an institutional asset. The institutional buyers at this early stage are just buying - not selling - because they are betting on being early and want to ride the wave. If Bitcoin dumps they will buy more. If it goes up they will keep buying. Once they buy it they are holding. They are not going to put it back on the market. Bitcoin has a finite supply. This means the number of Bitcoin traded on exchanges will 'dry up'. IOW the available supply will shrink and the upward price pressure will amplify.

Otherwise they could stick with 100% USD which will definitely decrease in value over time

I think the ElSalvador president understands this. It's actually a pretty genius move.

It's also bigger that we think in real terms, because since ElSavador legalised Bitcoin as a national currency, the FX should have to include Bitcoin on its register of global currencies. I can't even imagine what that means. But it looks pretty close to being a global 'gold standard' because it's the only peg with a finite cap.

The other point is, Elsalvador is case proving large scale mining as an integration into their renewable energy grid... which has a very high probability of working. Other electricity producers around the world will see how they can capitalise on Bitcoin mines as part of their capital investment structure.

Many electricity producers will integrate mines into their infrastructure and Bitcoin will be a new class of global reserve 'currency'. But not in the sense that trades will happen in Bitcoin... in the sense that hash rate will increase and decrease to keep energy output (base load) steady... I can't imagine what global hasharate tracking would men to global energy markets if Bitcoin is also the currency peg.

Do you plan on moving to El Salvador?

I wouldn't go anywhere near a place like Bitcoin city!

Why not?        

My scene is more like a log cabin in Montana... I'm more flannel than finery.

Doesn't bitcoin require a huge amount of processing power? I don't quite understand how "bitcoin mining" works. To me, it seems like bitcoin is a cross between a commodity and a credit card. This currency is perfect for criminals, as it leaves no trace. It is ripe for abuse as we see with all the computer hacking/hostage taking and demanding payment in bitcoin. I just don't see the positives outweighing the negatives.

yes. that's a good description The ledger is open source so anyone can trace any transaction. It's not good for criminal transactions. Criminals use cash because it leaves no trace. There is some crime going on, but most crime is done in cash and all dirty money is laundered through businesses and banks that we accept as 'normal'.

Remember when I made the outrageous claim in the oil thread that Bitcoin will integrated into and embedded within energy supply? Well I hate to say it, but I told you so.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/exxon...192552868.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...four-countries

One country is thinking about selling their gas and oil via bitcoin payments.

I don't think Bitcoin is liquid enough for huge transactions such as in international energy trade, but it will be one day as small modular nuclear reactors (SMR) coupled with green tech are used to localise energy supply and national energy security, and since Bitcoin mines are already integrating with energy supply chains to generate revenues from wastage and stablise fluctuations on the grid, and because it is the most secure monetary asset known to man, I imagine it will be a quazi-financial energy reserve in decades to come.

Well there you go.

My son has said similar things to you about Bitcoin quite a while ago.

People don't realise how big it is getting, but Strike, the Bitcoin payments platform (also called the lightning network) is being integrated into the biggest retail vendor platforms in the world, like Shopify, Paypal, Square and others.

El Salvador made Bitcoin it's legal currency last year (alongside the US dollar) and now Mexico is thinking about doing the same thing. No one wants to be beholden to the US dollar anymore because they can just freeze and seize all of your reserves. That is not possible with Bitcoin because no owns Bitcoin. It's literally global, and Bitcoin transactions are peer to peer without intermediaries such as Banks or the Swift Messaging system.

It's going to happen pretty quickly that countries will hodl bitcoin like gold reserves and declare it as a national currency, and now that the big retail platforms and payment services are integrating with Lightning, bitcoin is becoming more mainstream as a common global currency - beyond any border as any one country's money.

This will, in the long term, make Bitcoin the global reserve. No one wants another country's money to control their energy, and be subjected to sanctions just because the USA can. The old way simply cannot win this. People now know Bitcoin is safe, reliable, fair, and treats everyone the same no matter what.

This means all the people that the banks oppress by denying access to financial services can participate Global economy. I can send my family coin anywhere in the world by touching my phone. They do not need a bank account - but Bitcoin can;t just be spent anywhere - yet - though that is coming fast.

If something 'happens', does Bitcoin have a telephone number and/or website so a resolution to the problem can be worked out?

It's a decentralised system, so there is no 'person in charge' you can call, but that's by design as you don't need a trusted third party or permission to make transaction - no one can freeze your Bitcoin wallet or sanction your Bitcoin or stop you from sending/receiving Bitcoin.

So what can a person do if their Bitcoin gets 'stolen'?
Who do you contact to retrieve your crypto wallet password?

You have your own wallet and no one can steal from it unless they have your private key. If someone does get your key and steals your BTC, there is no way of retrieving it, so never give anyone your key. If you forget your key, you can not get your Bitcoin, so make sure you don't forget it and keep it very secure. There is no one to call if things go wrong. People do risky things with coins like use bridges or leave them on exchanges. These can be hacked and they often are, so don't do that. Only send coins to an exchange to sell them. Usually we'd send a bunch of cash to an exchange account and buy USDC (stablecoin) which we can then secure in our wallet. If we want fiat cash, we sell coins on an exchange and withdraw to a normal bank account.

Just a couple of latest developments. Two more small countries after El Salvador have adopted Bitcoin as legal tender (Hondurus and The Central African Republic), and The City of Fort Worth Texas has started Bitcoin mining (pilot project of just 3 ant mining machines).

There are several 3rd world countries considering making Bitcoin legal tender, so we are going to see many more over the years.

The Media is reporting Fort Worth as 'the first city government in the United States to mine bitcoin', which strongly implies it won't be the last.

No doubt, Bitcoin is on track to becoming embedded within government and industry. Just my opinion, but everyone really should own just a bit of Bitcoin at, like, 1% of net worth or something.

What is the carbon foot print for mining only once, just one Bit Coin transaction?

How much energy would it take if all financial transactions were done by BitCoin?

And, is there enough energy available now to do that?

The way they are setting it up nowdays is they build a layer on top of the Bitcoin network that can do lots of transactions, and they just do a few huge transactions on the Bitcoin network itself. But, it's still energy intensive.

My belief is the Bitcoin industry is a direct function of electricity cost. If electricity is expensive the miners make less profit at a given price of Bitcoin. I also believe energy companies will become the miners in the future and utilise excesses which are either burnt off flares at oil rigs or excess energy from baseload on the grid. I mean, it just makes sense if they can make more money from what they currently waste, why the hell wouldn't they? Those that do will have a comptitive edge. Energy suppliers could price out current miners and capture market share pretty easily because by utilising waste their cost of energy is effectively zero (they effectively only have cap ex costs). If you think about it, how can it not happen?

When it does, the price of Bitcoin will tie in directly to energy market competition, so it's not all that unlikely that it might become the 'energy currency' in the future. That would make Bitcoin the global reserve, and since the USD is already losing grip on that monopoly (The US can't sustain the trade deficits which are necessary) and no other country is capable of running as a reserve, there does have to be some sort of stable global currency for international energy/commodity trade. Since Bitcoin has no nationalistic ties, has completely stable and predictable inflation, and is likely to be tied into energy supply chains, it's actually a pretty good contender for the role.