Do you agree with the free will concept?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Alethia

I’m not sure about ‘we chose’ bit before we arrive.

Generally speaking, the understanding in the esoteric Essene stream of philosophy (and including others) is that, yes, we do in fact have absolute karmic choice and control over our incarnation destinies. We choose our parents, friends, and the circumstances of the earth existence we are to be born into, pre-birth and while in spirit.

We are beings of eternal soul; we are completely free and are bound by nothing; we are masters of our fate and captains of our soul as Henley pointed out.

We are not even bound by our karma. Karma is not fate, it is the sum total of the consequences of our actions. We may decide to return in physical form to deal with or correct a karmic happening in a previous life. But even once we're here, we are entirely free to choose to follow through or not follow through on that karmic interaction.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

I don't really understand your post Altair.

I have no idea what ''agency dimension'' is, either. Ref Post #89

[Miss Hepburn]

Post 91 - Good post Baile.:) I have not posted here because even since 2019 I didn't want to 'get involved',
cuz my views may not be the norm.
I'm in the mood at the moment so I will start.

A true story: So Gary Renard, author of "The Disappearance of the Universe", went to a Movie Plex to see a certain movie, BUT
it was sold out. So he went to another movie, not as good and was a 'unhappy'.
He complains to his Guides afterwards.

SO, his Guides explain to him if he had gotten out of the orig movie he would have entered an intersection,
gotten into an accident and spent a very long time in the hospital ,'learning and growing'.
BUT, he has already learned those things!!! YAY!
So, by going to the diff movie ...he avoided the car accident.

Did he have Free Will? Was someone working the Chess Board?

Did he change his karmic lessons?
Yes.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Altair

We live in a world of both structure and agency.

So true. For the body (physical) this is how it feels but does this include consciousness. The point made is well taken and brings up a related structure and agency however. The structure and agency would be spirit.

But there are some things that may affect free-will itself and our attitude. We don't want to. We don't have to. We also create structure and agency that itself limit free-will. Free-will is simply denied and this imo is choice that created when long term mind is consciously evolving but must want to. And one can actually use structure and agency because structure and agency allow the freedom to exist but we must give up the attachment structure and agency provide. Even in the world of structure and agency we can give examples of free-will which is the flaw that it does not exist. Simply one does not have to use free-will at all but we also can.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Did he have Free Will? Was someone working the Chess Board?

Did he change his karmic lessons?
Yes.

Miss Hepburn, what is your position and answer, did he have free will? It seems you're indicating yes because you say he changed his karmic lessons. I can't imagine how that would be possible if we are bound and fettered to our destiny /fate / karma.

[J_A_S_G]

From my perspective I'd say there's free will and then there's freedom from will.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

and then there's freedom from will.

My first thought when I read that is my lawn needs cutting, yeah but not today.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Baile

My first thought when I read that is my lawn needs cutting, yeah but not today.

That's good!

[Baile]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

That's good!

So J_A_S_G, what is the thought behind your statement freedom from will? It's an interesting sounding idea, and can you share more regarding its relevance and what it means?

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Baile

So J_A_S_G, what is the thought behind your statement freedom from will? It's an interesting sounding idea, and can you share more regarding its relevance and what it means?

It's in the context of Hindu nonduality. This is from a poem by Vivekananda, Atman is the transcendent Self and the law is Karma.

"Who sows must reap," they say, "and cause must bring
The sure effect; good, good; bad, bad; and none
Escape the law. But whoso wears a form
Must wear the chain." Too true; but far beyond
Both name and form is Âtman, ever free.

The sowing and the reaping is of the form. Wearing a form means identification with mind-body and specifically ego as the center of being. If we wear that form then we are doers of the sowing and receivers of the reaping. It all adds to the Karmic Bank and that keeps one chained (to the cycle of death and rebirth). It's doership and that's exercising free will.

If however we are the witness (Atman) of the sowing/action (and inaction) we are not the doer and therefore free from doership, free will and nothing is added to the Karmic Bank.

The Bhagavad Gita 4.18 is the same concept:

One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the tranecendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities.