Non-duality as devotion or concentration

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by vortex

ps its their to give you choice or if its not help full tell it "mind" to shut up i don't need your ****

What’s there?

[vortex]

we are human embrace it live it be it
i think at times we forget how human we are even if we are trying to be some-sort of super human

if you where being some sort so call spiritual being all the time you may as well go back to spirit it world be a dam-site easier

[vortex]

the story or drama judgments extra

and emotional body is just awesome the way to works how the feelings just swell up its just it really makes me feel alive here and l mean all of them

[Hemera]

My way of thinking and understanding is not as sophisticated as some people's here. However, I wanted to say that I do understand exactly where you are coming from Winter Light. I get a lot out of Buddhism, but I have never resonated with the 'no self' perspective - it feels quite literally 'empty' and not in a good way!! It has brought me a lot way in terms of being self-aware, but I needed something else.

I turned back to my Christian roots a little bit - not entirely, and not in a religious sense - to find what I felt was missing in my spiritual life. The answer was devotion. Once I committed myself to my experience of Divine love, I could easily surrender into it and become it. There was no longer 'emptiness' but a 'wholeness.' As you said, it felt deeply intimate and loving. I was the wave merging with the ocean.

[JustBe]

@starman I suppose when spirit is reaching into your depths directly felt and experienced one naturally emits such energy through the expression. It can only be understood through one’s own depth aware and clear to know and feel such things..

I think when we feel and perceive we are born into separation, humans develop all kinds of symbols, words and ideas to describe what we experience. Dual and non dual in me, now lays as merging point of ‘old and new’ forming a new path. Both sides support new life.. all sides inclusive to my becoming.

Talking about dual and non dual from a perceived seperate self in feeling, I would be speaking entirely different. I’ve never looked at my process through dual and non dual experience, so I can only relate to how it feels where I reside now when it’s bought up. I can see why it exists, why humans decide in such things.

All things as completion eyes, see life complete.. even if I’m aware it might not be acting, seeing or feeling that way.

So there is my entry into the world, which is neither dual or non dual, but rather just being myself complete as I am..

Others meeting me might see me through their dual eyes and feelings, or non dual eyes or both, they can only perceive me through what they know themselves as.

So being in all this doesn’t mean I lose what I am aware of. So all things exist as others create and keep their world made up as. But am I, as the creator and experiencer, who has let it all go, identifying only with life itself, the rest is non existent as I’m aware of in me, even thought others keep it’s existence alive in many forms of both..

That’s how I perceive myself, how I move through life.

If anyone describes wholeness as moving through life as non dual existence then that might fit. I can see how it might..I may be still participating in both, but my integration through my body informs and aligns to the world as I am aware and open as.

When you say non duality dwarfs duality, how so?

I think we can exist with an awareness of life in its movements as it is, I don’t think we have to know as much as we think as humans but then it serves to let everything go..

We know soooo much to filter our being into a state of simplicity of being.

[Starman]

I embrace that knowing in the heart is a lot different than knowing in the head. The human mind wants to crystallize and codify while the heart functions best in the pure flow of the primordial. I do not think of myself or conceptualize myself beyond the use of the word, or symbol, “I.”

I have played many roles according to how I perceived things to be in certain positions of employment, and other relationships, all grist for the mill in developing a conscience and building a self determined sacred space within myself.

On some level it just may be a thought within a thought, within a thought. I feel strongly that existence is all about learning and the number one subject of our learning, in my opinion, is ourselves. Regardless whether we are sharing it in words, symbols, music, or silence, we are sharing ourselves and what we feel we have learned.

Science has stated that the universe is curved, esoteric philosophy states that all motion in physical reality is circular. The Hebrew Kabbalah states (paraphrased) what we as humans refer to as “non-dual,” or one-ness, is primordial and infinite, while existing in a finite physical existence is temporary and consists of polarizing opposites.

Embracing this paradigm; by its very nature it is speculated non-duality exists beyond where duality is able to exist. Other words for Non-Duality are, one-ness, merging, spirit, unified, etc. While the term duality infers opposites, pros and cons, differences, right and wrong, etc. Personally I am still learning and growing in my perception of the one and the many.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by winter light

T. For me at least. Where the experience of non-duality is one where you are completely immersed in some devotion or concentration upon either the presence of another sentient being or to a worthwhile activity or cause.

Devotion or merging requires 2 separate entities . So while its extremely divine and sublime , its still a duality in technical terms . This is not to suggest devotion/concentration is not required . In fact devotion /concentration is of paramount importance at all stages of life.

In order to have vivid understanding of this , we would look at life itself how it works . We have normally sleep state or awake state (would exclude other states like dream / oneness for the purpose of this discussion) . In sleep we dont have anything . We dont know anybody while in sleep . Yet we experience bliss , our fatigue vanishes , we are refreshed , our pains /worries mitigated , our hopes brightened , we replenished with new energy/vigor .
Now when we are awake , entire world comes to life -we fear , we collaborate, we inspire others , get inspired from others , we play with others , we deal with people / thoughts /materials , we see varied hues/shades of life in its vibrancy and may feel excitement and may really discover the purpose and goal of life . In the whole process, we do get tired as we spend our energies behind activity in awake state.

Now if someone asks a question if do we need sleep or awake state ,People will say that's a irrelevant question and rightly so. Because we need both . Duality that facilitates smooth flow of life is great - is indeed required. And duality that discriminates into superior/inferior arbitrarily is antithetical and inimical to life - is not required.

Now if u see the sleep hours (which I call it God compulsory reserved oneness to re-energize us) are less compared to activity hours (where we loose our energy though we are at complete freedom what to do / not to do during these hours) . Here lies the mystery . If we dont do anything in our activity time , our granted energy is wasted/rusted/frittered away and we loose the opportunity to experience life in its vivid colors.
If we spend full time doing something , we spend our energies more than we earn in our sleep thereby experiencing the burnout/becoming ill fatigued aged. So there is mystery of maintaining spirit balance in life.

The key lies in experiencing non-duality also in activity states (meditation / concentration / good and sublime activity like donation / teaching / fighting for a noble cause / sharing insights etc which facilitates the journey of life for all concerned ) whereby we learn also life's ways and also retain the balance of life in us.

All this requires tremendous love for life and we can modulate between non-duality and duality states seamlessly intensely for our development.

You can do good deeds in life only when you associate/identify/empathize with others and become one with others in their grief /joy and experience non-duality in limited measure.

So besides concentration / devotion rituals , good deeds too can give lead us to non-duality experience.

[Ewwerrin]

I don't see nonduality to be in any particular state, like concentration or devotion.
That may lead to a greater recognition of nonduality. But it is not necesserily so.
Just like someone can use devotion and concentration to invent an electric lamp.
Meanwhile we just flip a switch and behold there is light.

Nonduality is like that. But instead of giving you something, it takes EVERYTHING away from you. Including yourself.

And it begins with understanding change. And what change really is. For this, one needs to understand time. But it is easier to begin ahead of the game and directly start with the foundation and leave any uncertainty to resolve itself. As we build up to nonduality.

We know existence is nondual. There cannot be two existences because existence itself incorporates all of existence. And without existence there is nothing and with existence there is everything. Everything depends on existence to exist, while existence depends on nothing. That is the first understanding.

The second is, the proof that existence is nondual. Nondual is one and therefor absolute in its uniqueness. There cannot be any likeness or unlikeness to existence, if it truely is to be absolute and nondual. So lets compare. Existence and nonexistence. Isn't nonexistence the polar opposite of existence? Well? No... Because non existence, by its very own definition, DOES NOT EXIST. And therefor, UREEKA! Existence has no acquivalence. No likeness, no unlikeness, no reflection, no comparison. And this is all inclusive. Infinity and eternity.

Now we have number 3.
First we have foundation. 1
Proof 2.
And challenge, 3.

The challenge is as follows. Existence is everything. It is simply being. Existence is unchanging, unique, absolute, always, altimes. It is being. It is never becoming. Just being. So where does change come from? If existence is unchanging nondual and absolute and eternal and infinite and everything... If existence is being. Not becoming. But BEING without becoming. Then how come we experience change? That is the challenge.

And this challenge is easily resolved. Because Existence exists without limitation. There is no outside force that can limit it. It cannot be made less. And it cannot be made more. And it cannot evolve. It simply is. So where does change come from? Well... It comes from the attribute of existence. Beyond time and space. Existence is still existence. It has never begun and it will never end. And it is UNIQUE. It's Uniqueness is so absolute, that existence has no choice or free will of any kind, but to be absolutely Unique to the highest degree to the absolute of all uniqueness Existence is not just the most unique thing that exists, it is Uniqueness itself. All other things are acquivalents, similarities, comparisons of the dualistic mind.

So understand that without beginning or end, existence is Unique. It never became unique, it will never become Unique. It is simply unique and all that it can ever be is to be unique. Without limitation. Because this is the absolute uniqueness of existence itself. And so... It is Unique, right here and now. RIGHT NOW. RIGHT HERE. It is BEING Unique.

You say, from this moment to this moment. Something has changed. No! Every moment is not only the same Uniqueness it is not even Equal in uniqueness. It is LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME ETERNAL MOMENT BEING UNIQUE WITHOUT EVER BECOMING ANYTHING.

So do you understand now why Change does not exist? Once this is understood, then the absolute is clearky known. As clearly as a clear sky bright sunny day. Every moment is only the same one moment. Forever. Simply being unique. Why? Because non existence doesnt exist. So existence is simply being Unique. And it is the only thing that is Unique. So what appears as change, this moment and this moment. Is the same eternal one moment being simply not just equally Unique. But literally the same one Uniqueness.

So devotion and concentration allowed you to read this and understand it. And you might still be in doubt. No... This is a different moment. It was ten o clock and now it is 12 o clock. Its a different momen! And you can never proof your doubt.

What about freewill then? Well.... It is simply the same uniqueness of existence. It cannot help but be Unique. All things, like time and free will, consciousness. They are all unique. They are not equally unique. They are the same one Uniqueness. Even every thought you have. Even if you think the same thought twice, the second time is unique. It is not a different thought.

It appears to be different and changing. But these are temporary illusions. And those illusions are also Unique. They are not equal to the Uniqueness of existence. They ARE literally the same one and only Uniqueness of Existence.

So newness is always. Because there is nothing like unto Existence. It is forever being new and Unique, without becoming anything. You can test this claim out. Can you proof that anything has come into being? First it was a seed and then a plant. But if you take linear time away, and you investigate the seed, you will find that it is forever Unique and infinite. The appearance of everything isn't changing. It is simply being Unique.

Every single moment unlike any that has ever come before it or will ever be like unto it ever again and again and again and again. Forever and ever. And ever. New.

So, it takes away identity, it takes away knowing, because its always being new. It takes away consciousness because both observing and observed are constantly being Unique. Unknowable and yet experiencable and yet not experienceable. It is simply newness. Uniqueness. No two snowflakes are the same, no two people are the same. And yet, they are all unified in the absolute uniqueness of existence. Not even the witness is seperate from the snowflake and neither are seperate from existence being Unique.

Your consciousness and free will is also unique. It isnt a new thing. It is newness it self. Uniqueness itself. Existence itself. Being without becoming. Being Unique. Unchangingly. Infinitely Unique. The idea of time is just an illusion. And change is not change. It is just the Uniqueness of existence.

Nonduality is so simple that it is difficult for the mind to comprehend how simple it is.

So next time you say, oh my god look at all these dualities... Simply remember. It is all unique. Because non existence doesnt exist. Existence has no other ability, but to simply be Unique.
So darkness does not oppose brightness.
Both are simply being Unique. The mind may insist that it is opposite. It is just being unique. The mind. It is also Unique

[Ewwerrin]

@Starman
Don't you think the word New describes it all well?

I like the word NEW. To describe it. It is all New.
Never has been before anything like unto it, nor will ever be like unto it ever again, and again, and again.
It is simply forever new.

That explains why we cannot put it into words. It is too new.

However, in theory I thought that I could harness nonduality and use it as some kind of absolute positive.

But newness being absolute, is more likely to bring about confusion if tried to understand. We simply cannot grasp the newness of here and now. It is ungraspable.

It's an eternal mystery. Everything is always constantly new. It seems like a recipe for endless chaos. And yet we experience it not on what we believe it is. We cannot even form a believe around here and now, it being so new. The newness and thus mystery of it, being absolute, can also be said to be the most old thing there is. It has always been new and always will be.

[1Greg2]

Whatever I can know, I am not that. I am that which I cannot know, non-conceptual. Eternally, I am nothing, I know nothing. Nothing is everything, something like space before language had any meaning.