No self/consciousness?

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Aww just loved that little video! Thank you.

It's a very good movie! The actor - Harry Dean Stanton - was largely a supporting actor and his career spanned six decades. "Lucky" was one of his few leading roles.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Starman

Although, in my opinion, awareness requires acknowledgement, even in a blank state, which often most report no acknowledgement in a blank state; they simply say “I don‘t know what happened, I blacked out.” Maybe blacking out is the acknowledgement of absence.

After a night of deep and dreamless sleep and upon awakening one might think or say "I slept like a log". How do we know?

What really brings it home for me is the several times while sitting in meditation and the timer goes off it's as if to mind it was just a blink of the eyes, yet to something else it was a 'space' beyond time, space and thought. I think of it as Consciousness minus objects, mind being an object too. An experience of absence.

[Gem]

Descartes said "I think therefore I am", but the point of his meditations was to prove God. He started with the doubting of all I know. May all this be a dream? Has a very powerful demon deceived me into taking an illusion to be real? What can be said to be real? What can be true? By this process of elimination of all knowledge, through doubting all you suppose to know, one will arrive at the known which cannot be doubted - and although we have taken Descartes Meditations to say, I am, that I exist, is irrefutable; in his elaborations, Descartes said, 'That I exist is true each time I think it or conceive of myself,' and one has to take "I think therefore I am" in its deeper pool of context.

By saying it's true, can it yet be doubted that I exist each time I conceive of it? What about when I am not conceiving of myself - when it doesn't even occur to me?

I think therefore. Even if Descartes thought what philosophers think he thought, "therefore I am" is still a reflection in the mutable mind, and is best the frayed end of a truth that remains inaccessible, for it is beyond the mind itself.

Establishing the self was not the conclusion, but the pathway toward the unassailable known: the one true God.

[Gem]

..........

[Starman]

J A S G, I like that very much; “how do we know we slept like a log?” The nature and quality of awareness is often thought of as sight; to be aware of something is to see it.

I have shared many times here in this forum how I lost my eyesight and was totally blind to this world for about 5-years, went through more than a dozen eye surgeries to regain my eyesight. I often share here how when I was blind I learned that we may look at things with our eyes but we will only see them with our awareness.

But since then I have come to understand that we can see with all of our senses; and for me it is not really seeing as related to our eyes, rather it is more along the lines of feeling. We can see with our feelings, and I embrace that our sense of touch is the primordial sensation on which all other sensations are based.

What are we in touch with when our physical body sleeps? A deep dreamless presence, which we can also experience in quiet meditation. Acknowledgement of awareness may be more based on feeling, or touch, than it is seeing as with our eyes. Experience is based on being in touch with something or other seen or unseen.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Starman

I embrace that our sense of touch is the primordial sensation on which all other sensations are based.

Advaita would say it's a superimposition of mind over consciousness, and by mind I really mean ego, the I-maker. An entanglement. And eyes are an extension of mind, as are all the other senses.

And yeah, I agree with what you say about touch, and even more subtle aspects like any bodily sensation. When I sit in meditation I start with maybe a 5 minute body scan, starting at the feet and working up to the crown. Breath in and gather up any tension then breath out and release any gathered up tension. It's almost as if the body melts away and it lays down a good foundation for the sitting.

There's a strong link between gross sensations (bodily) and subtle sensations (emotions, feelings). The body-mind thingy.

[Goldcup7]

A little insight here around the senses. The world appears as a separating out from one to many. We can see it in trees, flowers, rivers and streams, rainbows, lightning forks, and these human limbs and fingers and toes.

Imo the senses are similar. The different senses are like a separating out of awareness. But although they appear to be separate, the hearing, seeing, tasting, feeling etc. is all experienced in one central place. We can call that 'place' awareness or consciousness.

[Starman]

In my experience our senses go deep within us, as J A S G, has said, there are different quality senses, physical body, mind, emotions, etc. We have outer sight and also inner sight, or insight, we also have inner hearing, outer feelings of physical things and inner feelings, etc. When I was blind I could still see within myself.

Many decades ago I studied the Tatvas, which in Indian philosophy has a component that deals with the senses. They are parts or principles of nature. Although there are many mental constructs and paradigms in various spiritual and religious beliefs about the aspects of consciousness. I may loosely refer to many different paths but I do not defer to them.

Personally, I do not embrace the concept of ego and I feel that concept is overused, especially by spiritually oriented people. I tend to get as little information as possible from outside references, rather I rely heavily on my inner being, and would much rather have a pure unfiltered experience then a conceptual interpretation of my experience.

I worked in the mental health field and all they talked about was ego, I got tired of that concept and came to understand that ego is an illusion. “I” is only present when we reflect upon ourselves in thought or word. In my perception there is really no such thing as “ego.” Ego is a concept, an illusionary mental construct, which only in our mind fragments the one into the many. J A S G, I did like the body awareness exercise before meditating which you shared.

[Redchic12]

Starman……..” Personally, I do not embrace the concept of ego and I feel that concept is overused, especially by spiritually oriented people. I tend to get as little information as possible from outside references, rather I rely heavily on my inner being, and would much rather have a pure unfiltered experience then a conceptual interpretation of my experience.”

I totally agree. This is why I feel it is wise to go into meditation (or otherwise) saying “I don’t know”. This will then open you up to “what is”. Imo

I’ve researched many spiritual subjects/people/gurus over the years but feel that they are only other peoples experiences so you can’t take them on board as fact. I try to keep an open mind on most things tho.

Awww that was funny biting that kids bum Starman. Not evil, just a Kid being a kid as far as I’m concerned. You’ve gotta stand up for yourself in this world (kid or adult) or people will walk all over you.

[Goldcup7]

My view of the ego is that it is our sense of who we are. It is the sense 'I am this human' and I am not those others. It is our sense of identity. We can strengthen it by affiliating with other egos, focusing on our abilities or thoughts about ourselves, and acquiring items that belong to us.

The way to dissolve the ego is by being less selfish, being good to others, helping others, praying for others, and putting others first. Worship and service to God is a path to weaken the ego, as are spiritual practices (mantras and meditation) that take the focus away from 'me and my thoughts'. Also Self Enquiry can root out the ego, finding out who this 'I am' is.

This brings the pesky ego to the ultimate realisation that it was all a play. There isn't really an ego, an identity separate from everything else. There is only what is.