Home
Donate!
Articles
CHAT!
Shop
|
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.
We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.
|
24-07-2022, 12:36 AM
|
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 25,407
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
..the "AHA Moment" just happens.
|
Oh, and when that switch happens in the mind beyond logic...
what a moment that is...it's (to me) like entering the world of childhood ...fantasy...magic ...where everything is....and is possible....Ahhh.
__________________
.*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)
Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.
|
24-07-2022, 01:11 AM
|
Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,411
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
The Korean Zen Master Seung Sahn once had an intriguing dialogue with an ADVANCED FEMALE DISCIPLE during which he looked at her half-smiling and said: " Women cannot get enlightenment".
|
Her reaction hit home, maybe she was defending her womanhood and right to be?
But do you need to defend what you already are?
It’s a bit like dropping the ‘I’ your determining what you are.
__________________
Free from all thought of “I” and “mine”, that man finds utter peace. ~Bhagavad Gita
|
24-07-2022, 01:18 AM
|
Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,411
|
|
|
|
As for the ‘I don’t know’ that’s probably closer to the emptiness of self, ‘no self’ awareness, even though he knows. How can you not know ‘I don’t know’ unless you know..hehe
Knock knock
Who’s there?
No one
No one who?
Who’s no one!
No, who’s no one?
Who’s no one!
No I’m asking you who’s no one?
Who’s no one!
(Oh the absurdity of it all. Hehe)
Zen by justbe
__________________
Free from all thought of “I” and “mine”, that man finds utter peace. ~Bhagavad Gita
|
24-07-2022, 12:03 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,520
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
Who can 'GET' enlightenment .....
|
That's a good point but I don't think that was his point as his statement was specifically directed to a woman. However, I have more information to share shortly about the conclusion of that dialogue.
As I've said before, there is no single approved interpretation/answer to a koan. This is FUN hearing people's views.
|
24-07-2022, 12:09 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,520
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
One interpretation: That's a koan, for women. He confused her, so she got in trance, and understood "whatever" inner truth (not a rationalization).
There are other possible interpretations too.
|
Seung Sahn definitely confused the ADVANCED FEMALE DISCIPLE (I emphasize that she was advanced because this is probably not something one would say to a novice) with his statement. Seung Sahn let her ponder the statement until he cleared it up with another koan-like concluding line which I will share shortly.
|
24-07-2022, 12:10 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,520
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Oh, and when that switch happens in the mind beyond logic...
what a moment that is...it's (to me) like entering the world of childhood ...fantasy...magic ...where everything is....and is possible....Ahhh.
|
Wow ! Indeed "what a moment that is... when that switch happens in the mind beyond logic".
|
24-07-2022, 12:17 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,697
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
That's a good point but I don't think that was his point as his statement was specifically directed to a woman.
As I've said before, there is no single approved interpretation/answer to a koan. This is FUN hearing people's views.
|
Can a Man 'Get' enlightenment no, because an enlightened being doesn't identify with gender imo....
|
24-07-2022, 12:20 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,520
|
|
|
|
|
Women can't get enlightenment
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
Her reaction hit home, maybe she was defending her womanhood and right to be?
But do you need to defend what you already are?
It’s a bit like dropping the ‘I’ your determining what you are.
|
Although I hadn't given the concluding statement of the Zen Master regarding his statement that "women can't get enlightenment", your interpretation came closest to my own understanding of the interaction ... and I had more information at my disposal.
When pressed by the woman to support his statement that "women can't get enlightenment", Seung Sahn finally wheeled around sharply, pointed his finger at her and, looking into her eyes strongly, said "So, you're a 'woman' ?"
The student was silent as the teaching sank in.
My understanding is similar to the last line of your post. She had to drop her identification with being a 'woman' and determine who she really is. Identification with the body, with one's gender, etc. can obscure the clear vision of who one really is.
You raised a very good point in your post despite the fact that I had held back crucial information.
NOTE: As I've said before, there is no single approved answer/interpretation to a koan. No one really knows what was in the mind of Seung Sahn or his advanced female student.
|
24-07-2022, 02:09 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,520
|
|
|
|
|
QUOTE 23 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
As for the ‘I don’t know’ that’s probably closer to the emptiness of self, ‘no self’ awareness, even though he knows. How can you not know ‘I don’t know’ unless you know..hehe
|
That is very close to my understanding of Bodhidharma's response though I prefer the "Not Knowing" translation since it doesn't include the "I" as in "I don't know".
Another poster provided a link to the entire dialogue between Bodhidharma and the Emperor. As you pointed out in your post, Bodhidharma did refer explicitly to the "emptiness".
https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comment...ly_to_emperor/
EXCERPT:
Emperor Wu of Liang asked Bodhidharma, What is the first principle of the holy teachings?" Bodhidharma said, "Emptiness, no holiness." "Who is this standing before me?" "No knowing."
|
24-07-2022, 02:11 PM
|
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,520
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
Can a Man 'Get' enlightenment no, because an enlightened being doesn't identify with gender imo....
|
That is EXACTLY the point (IMHO).
However, since Seung Sahn was addressing a female student, he understandably used the word "woman".
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:26 PM.
|