Sangharaks*ita

[Guillaume]

Originally Posted by sky123

Why does it sound odd ?
Many Christian Monks/Bishops/Priests etc: have Alcohol related problem.

Hey, being tiddly with a few drinks is not a sign of alcoholism, I would say the opposite!

Just for information / recall, in Europe many monasteries produce wine, beer and all kinds of spirits. It has been an "elixir of youth" for a long time!
Not to mention in the bible "this wine is my blood" ...

Abuse and getting drunk is not good, but moderate consumption is rather beneficial.

Ah ok found it. The context was missing but that's ok.

"which is a thing a Trappist rarely gets to do..." Merton

I think one would need some experience living in a monastic community as a priest or monk or nun to understand a situation like that. I had some experience in similar things. Special rare days, friends of the monastery involved.

[Guillaume]

I don't know from which culture / country you see that.
But as a French, I can tell a bit more about it.
Alcohol has been consumed almost like ... let's say coffee, it's a fair comparison. It's not the case anymore, but in the 1950's children were allowed to drink a bit of alcohol from a very young age (8 or 10 years old).
People drank a few glasses of wine or beer at every meal.
But being drunk publicly was absolutely prohibited, only drunkards did that.

Of course, for certain occasions (once or twice a year) people were allowed to drink more, laugh and sing a bit loudly.
And I'm sure it was also the case in many monasteries.

Alcohol drinking has changed with the binge drinking culture.
It's a completely different way of consuming!

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

Thanks I will look it up. It's interesting to me as I lived in a small community and such things would not have been possible. I think his community was fairly large at the time he lived there and maybe he was afforded certain freedoms due to his popularity as a writer and lecturer? ...

Given his Journal entries it's obvious that Thomas Merton took his monastic vows seriously. I think he recognised himself his need for a degree of discipline. Initially his monastic order certainly made an exception for Merton as far as his writing was concerned. He was a "natural" who expressed himself - even came to know himself - via words. Cynics can see the Church as seeing some sort of cash cow in terms of expected royalties, yet given how his words have since proved so illuminating for so many others, the decision to allow him to continue writing was correct.

However, his vows of obedience finally became strained as he himself felt certain restrictions (i.e. to cease writings on peace and the bomb) were flawed. This led to some letters/writings to be smuggled out of the monastery, and also the use of marking certain communications "Conscience Matter" which then by-passed the censors. (See "The Cold War Letters") Merton also came to view his first abbot as over strict and it is evident from his journal how he rejoiced when this abbot took to a solitary hermitage, leaving the way open for the new abbot James Fox, who gave Merton greater freedom - his own hermitage and eventually permission for his Asian Pilgrimage.

Merton met all sorts in his hermitage, including Joan Baez, Thich Nhat Hanh and others. There was also the "love affair" with a nurse, met while he had a period in hospital.

Merton became, in his own words, an anti-monk.

He has been/is a great mentor of mine. His grasp of Buddhism, particularly zen, has been a great guide for me. Some have dismissed him as "purely intellectual" with no true "inner" grasp of the Dharma. Yes, he was an intellectual, yet his journals and letters reveal how much time he spent in contemplation and meditation in the woods around Gethsemane.

I could go on, but enough for now.

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Thomas Merton took his monastic vows seriously. ...intellectual"

Yes very much so. I read some 300 pages of his letters yesterday from your link. I had not heard of that story of Merton before and the way it was worded briefly without context made it look like he had obtained the alcohol for himself, he did not, and that it was done outside a monastic context, it was not. I said it seemed like an odd story as I know how deeply disciplined Merton was, how deeply serious, how intellectual, how spiritual, how wholly commented to his vows. Then somebody posted quote: "Why does it sound odd? Many Christian Monks/Bishops/Priests etc: have Alcohol related problem." Sheesh lol. Merton did not.

I remember once some very rich close friend of the monastery, he met and talked with the Abbot often, arranged for the Abbot to marry his daughter which was rare. So the wedding was going to be at the monastery which also only happened this one time I was there. It was not normally done. It was due to the Abbot's close friendship with this man. We had a 90 minute mass followed by a brief 5 minutes of vows. The ceremony was about God and Jesus and not that couple. I'm not sure what they were thinking when deciding to have the ceremony in a contemplative monastery. The bride and groom were not the focus. But it was special as it was almost never done.

Then after the mass plus a few minutes of marriage vows they had a reception in the guest area with cake and champagne and we were told we were invited and could stay for 20 minutes. So I grabbed some cake and went to my room. But that reminded me of the Merton situation. We were cloistered and rarely ran into the public.

[sky]

Many Christian Monks/Bishops/Priests etc: have Alcohol related problem. Sheesh lol
Sheesh lol, exactly.... They certainly do.
Btw I know a lot about Thomas Merton even before He was mentioned on here sheesh lol

Originally Posted by Guillaume

Hey, being tiddly with a few drinks is not a sign of alcoholism,

yes very true