Why does GOD exist?

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I like that saying very much and I shall adopt it - thanks for the timely message.

As a side note, linguistically and phonetically, the word "Gnosis" is akin to the Sanskrit word Gnana or Jnana.

Many take Jnana to mean literally "physical knowledge" or knowing that you know...which was never the intention represented by the word...but until the revival happens, mankind will still be stuck in an egocentric mind trying to "learn all there is to KNOW"...without wanting to know what they don't already only think they know...and I have had a hard time explaining this over the past 24 hours.

You're very welcome.

And thank you for Gnana, it's another 'pointer' to say I'm heading in the right direction.

The good thing about banging your head against a brick wall is that it feels great when you stop.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Moonglow


Believing is a choice and sometimes it doesn't matter if someone knows or not because ignorance can play it's part too. Something can happen right in front of their eyes and they can choose not to believe it. Tangible evidence can be brought and they won't believe the evidence, yet they can believe on a fairy story because it suits their purposes. What you're talking about here has moved away from belief and has come into the realms of agenda.

What of the belief that all is Spirit, all is Source? In that case, what about the Spiritual aspects of any experience?

Regardless of beliefs there is always an 'us and them', there is always a reason to come into conflict. When you take away the trappings, people are just people. man.

The human mind needs something tangible to hang its hat on, and it has ever since the caveman days. Perhaps by way of 'As Above, So Below' animals and Gods became representations of the metaphysical forces around them. Originally snakes were seen as watchers of the earth by a number of cultures because they were close to the ground and could sense the vibrations. Birds sometimes had the same status as angels, the though that something/someone 'up there' was watching brought comfort to some. Perhaps the thought that their Loved Ones had risen to some higher plane of existence brought comfort. These things have been buried in the human psyche for millennia and are now very deeply ingrained. Today, God is giving our Loved Ones comfort.

How many movie stars do we have that are worshipped? How many music stars, social media celebrities......????? Is there status in putting Eckhart Tolle on a pedestal because he's a Spiritual guru and Spirituality is righteous, or is there so little difference in the pedestals after all?

When we're worshipping Jesus and completely missing the message? When we put all our faith, Love, hopes, dreams in God and not ourselves?

"I know what I know, what I don't know I don't know. What's the problem?"
Sadhguru

Hi Greenslade,

I suppose at times it is simply what it is made out to be.
A song can lift the spirits and be a spiritual experience if taken to be. Or it can be just a really cool song that lifts the spirit and just enjoyed.

If all is Spirit and stems from source then it could be taken life is the spiritual journey. No longer trying to place it neatly in a box, but realizing and/or feeling that all that is experienced is also Spirit experiencing. What is made of it or how it is related to may determine or not what action is taken or what belief is formed.

I believe it, so in a way relate to it. Which moves me to possibly look further. If not believed would one even bother with it? Or would one go about trying to disprove it? Or would one just simply not pay attention to it?

In short agree people are just people, man.

There are conflicts some because of agendas clashing or power plays. Reflected through out history and God has been a big factor in it when used or manipulated away from the Spiritual teachings and into being a tool to create fear and power.

So what does this have to do with existence of God? It is created with in our minds and how we live our lives. If there was no existence of it, then would so much be written about it, talked about it, fought over it, celebrated, ect.

I do not know what it is, but know how it feels to be alive, to love, to have loss, to be human. If this does not reflect creation, life, or what may be defined as "God", then what can I say?

Yes, "what's the proplem?" There is none unless one wants one.

I do say this with respect to others. Yes, perhaps some of the answer is not in a word/title or how it is defined, but in each one of us and ourselves. There lies existence in motion and the divine.

Thank you, Greenslade for your thoughts.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade,

I suppose at times it is simply what it is made out to be.
A song can lift the spirits and be a spiritual experience if taken to be. Or it can be just a really cool song that lifts the spirit and just enjoyed.

If all is Spirit and stems from source then it could be taken life is the spiritual journey. No longer trying to place it neatly in a box, but realizing and/or feeling that all that is experienced is also Spirit experiencing. What is made of it or how it is related to may determine or not what action is taken or what belief is formed.

I believe it, so in a way relate to it. Which moves me to possibly look further. If not believed would one even bother with it? Or would one go about trying to disprove it? Or would one just simply not pay attention to it?

In short agree people are just people, man.

There are conflicts some because of agendas clashing or power plays. Reflected through out history and God has been a big factor in it when used or manipulated away from the Spiritual teachings and into being a tool to create fear and power.

So what does this have to do with existence of God? It is created with in our minds and how we live our lives. If there was no existence of it, then would so much be written about it, talked about it, fought over it, celebrated, ect.

I do not know what it is, but know how it feels to be alive, to love, to have loss, to be human. If this does not reflect creation, life, or what may be defined as "God", then what can I say?

Yes, "what's the proplem?" There is none unless one wants one.

I do say this with respect to others. Yes, perhaps some of the answer is not in a word/title or how it is defined, but in each one of us and ourselves. There lies existence in motion and the divine.

Thank you, Greenslade for your thoughts.

Hi Moonglow

What is the 'Spiritual Journey' though, really? If there is nothing that is not Source isn't everything 'Spiritual' and therefore the word becomes defunct? Everything exists in relation to something else so what is the 'something else' Spiritual is in relation to? You define what Spiritual is, or you adopt the definitions that you're read about or it seems to be what others are implying it to be. By extension, you also define what is not Spiritual. The thing is, what is or isn't Spiritual comes down to your definitions. Is there such a thing as a non-Spiritual Journey? And if we as Spirit chose our Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations then what does that say about the Spiritual Journey? That if it's not a Spiritual Journey then Spirit got it wrong?

If you are looking further, what are you looking for and even more importantly, what are you missing inside? 'Further' is always looking away from oneself and it's within oneself where the answers are. There is something more because you believe there is or you feel it deep inside and you can't quite put your finger on it. And the Seeker is always that which is sought.

When was the last time you heard your breath?

The existence of God relies on one thing only - the belief that he exists. Nobody looks at the history of God - because believe it or not he does actually have a history. Nobody wants to find out the truth of how the human mind has been developing 'God' since the days Homo Habilis created cave paintings, or that perhaps God came from the theory of the Stoned Ape. If we could find the truth of that one? People worship God because a few cavemen ate magic mushrooms. So you know what God is and why God exists, but you don't know how egotistical and nonsensical that is, because by mainstream definitions of God - and they're the rub - God is so far beyond understanding by the puny human brain.

After a while it's just stops making any kind of sense. The question was never "Why does God exist?" The only question worth asking in this whole thread is "What is the question?" And until that question has been given any sensible answers nothing else makes any sense.

Nobody wants to understand that what they're saying about God is nothing about God and everything about themselves.

As always, Moonglow, you're very welcome.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The existence of God relies on one thing only - the belief that he exists. Nobody looks at the history of God - because believe it or not he does actually have a history.

This confuses the existence of Absolute Being with human beliefs about such a Being. It looks at the history of religion (in all its forms) and calls it a history of God. It is a very confused perspective.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Nobody wants to find out the truth of how the human mind has been developing 'God' since the days Homo Habilis created cave paintings, or that perhaps God came from the theory of the Stoned Ape. If we could find the truth of that one? People worship God because a few cavemen ate magic mushrooms.

Or perhaps the worship of God is nothing to do with so-called cavemen and magic mushrooms.

Perhaps the worship of God came from those sages who went deep within and realised the nature of the Divine (or as much of that nature as a human being is capable of realising).

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So you know what God is and why God exists, but you don't know how egotistical and nonsensical that is, because by mainstream definitions of God - and they're the rub - God is so far beyond understanding by the puny human brain.

Knowledge of the Divine has little to do with the physical human brain. It is a state of consciousness which far transcends the physical body.

Peace.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi Moonglow

What is the 'Spiritual Journey' though, really? If there is nothing that is not Source isn't everything 'Spiritual' and therefore the word becomes defunct? Everything exists in relation to something else so what is the 'something else' Spiritual is in relation to? You define what Spiritual is, or you adopt the definitions that you're read about or it seems to be what others are implying it to be. By extension, you also define what is not Spiritual. The thing is, what is or isn't Spiritual comes down to your definitions. Is there such a thing as a non-Spiritual Journey? And if we as Spirit chose our Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations then what does that say about the Spiritual Journey? That if it's not a Spiritual Journey then Spirit got it wrong?

If you are looking further, what are you looking for and even more importantly, what are you missing inside? 'Further' is always looking away from oneself and it's within oneself where the answers are. There is something more because you believe there is or you feel it deep inside and you can't quite put your finger on it. And the Seeker is always that which is sought.

When was the last time you heard your breath?

The existence of God relies on one thing only - the belief that he exists. Nobody looks at the history of God - because believe it or not he does actually have a history. Nobody wants to find out the truth of how the human mind has been developing 'God' since the days Homo Habilis created cave paintings, or that perhaps God came from the theory of the Stoned Ape. If we could find the truth of that one? People worship God because a few cavemen ate magic mushrooms. So you know what God is and why God exists, but you don't know how egotistical and nonsensical that is, because by mainstream definitions of God - and they're the rub - God is so far beyond understanding by the puny human brain.

After a while it's just stops making any kind of sense. The question was never "Why does God exist?" The only question worth asking in this whole thread is "What is the question?" And until that question has been given any sensible answers nothing else makes any sense.

Nobody wants to understand that what they're saying about God is nothing about God and everything about themselves.

As always, Moonglow, you're very welcome.

Hey Greenslade,

You know it seems to me in many ways people express what God is to him/her and then base why it exists upon these.

God when placed in words become an expression of ideas, thought, experiences, but to one who may have other such things that may not concur it may not make sense. For what is all this God talk based on anyways?

If it be formless, ethereal, that which is unknown, then how can it be explained I way that is not egotistical?

So, one may say be still and know I Am God. Which points to what? The one asking, does it not? So in this sense it makes sense that all this talk is more reflecting each other, then it is about brining a difinitive answer in regards to God. The irony may be this is answering the question through the many expressions. There is is no one right or wrong answer, for they all answer the question.

God has been created or we have become conscious of it because we created the ideas, passed along the experiences, written about it. Does it make God so? In a way to me it does. Is God an entity of some kind?

Yes, life is the spiritual journey. Everything is of spirit. Take away the preaching and how it should be. Look at how it is being and in this it is all Spirit experiencing right along with this human being. In this sense it is spiritual and a journey.

To look further in my way is to be curious. Not necessarily know what may be around the bend or even if anything is. To have interest in life and at times to have interest in what others may think or know. Otherwise seems a bit boring.
Gives the ol' brain box something to imagine and ponder on. Life is a wonder and nature always has something to show.

Even if it be gratitude for being given another day to live. So, is not always looking beyond myself, but learning more of myself, others, and the universe.
It is all spiritual if taken that way. It can lift the heart and at times break it too.
But, all of the experience and what adds to the consciousness and the stories carried on.
Yes, sometimes it is hearing nothing more then my own breath.

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

This is not a debate of whether or not GOD exists.
In this question, we assume the GOD exists.
The questions is:

Why does GOD exist?
(Whatever your GOD or GODs may be)

God does not ask Why. God IS.

Peace.

JL

[happy soul]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

This is not a debate of whether or not GOD exists.
In this question, we assume the GOD exists.
The questions is:

Why does GOD exist?
(Whatever your GOD or GODs may be)

It's the 'will of love' that God exist.

That God exists is a wholly loving, joyful truth.

Love wills that God exist.

It's a form of happiness.

Originally Posted by iamthat

This confuses the existence of Absolute Being with human beliefs about such a Being. It looks at the history of religion (in all its forms) and calls it a history of God. It is a very confused perspective.

It doesn't confuse me because I don't believe in an Absolute Being. 'Absolute' in Spirituality often comes from the egoic mind, not the Spiritual mind and certainly not from heart-centred Spirituality. 'Absolute Being' is just God wrapped up prettily with a bow. And Absolute is relative to relative so to use it to describe a being that is supposedly omniscient and omnipotent as absolute is you being as confused as you perceive me to be. The egoic mind has a tendency to contradict itself.

That God or Absolute Being exists is a human belief - Spirit doesn't do beliefs.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Or perhaps the worship of God is nothing to do with so-called cavemen and magic mushrooms.

Perhaps the worship of God came from those sages who went deep within and realised the nature of the Divine (or as much of that nature as a human being is capable of realising).

The problem with Spiritual people is that very often they don't look past Spirituality, and that very much limits their understanding. The Stoned Ape is a theory, albeit a plausible theory because the facts are lost in the mists of time. What we do know is that cavemen had developed Spiritual beliefs long before a belief in God existed, and the human brain is pre-disposed to a belief in God.

By the way, cavemen also use the Law of Attraction. So the 'nature of the Divine' had nothing to do with a singular, all-powerful being. Non-Abrahamic Gods were generally either actual people who existed and were worshipped as Gods or who represented aspects of the Universe. The Sages would have looked to pantheism if anything and not to a supreme being.

Christianity stole God from the Sumerians and most of Genesis is a rewrite of the Enuma Elish, God is either Enlil - which fits better with the Sumerian texts - or Anu. So God as an Absolute Being is based on a myth. He could also be stolen from Zoroaster/Zarathustra.

Because you're from New Zealand, it's possible that your belief in God can be traced back to the Romans, if so then if it hadn't been for Constantine's quest for power - Constantine was a Pagan by the way, he aligned himself not with God but Hermes - you would be Druidic/pantheistic. Most likely God wouldn't exist in your reality.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Knowledge of the Divine has little to do with the physical human brain. It is a state of consciousness which far transcends the physical body.

Peace.

Tolle said that there are two types of consciousness, there is 'object' consciousness and there is 'Space' consciousness. Knowledge is object consciousness because it is a function of he human brain, it's the actions of electrical signals and therefore of the realms of form and matter. While he doesn't go into space consciousness much I suspect he's talking about Gnosis. Gnosis is knowing without knowing how you know. "Knowledge of the Divine" is another device that seems to be used by the egoic mind to gain some Spiritual high ground, and it also contradicts itself. It is the physical human brain and more often than not is either an avatar of the collective subconsciousness or a survival instinct. Oh, and don't forget cognitive dissonance, which is often what comes into play here.

Even the great minds that are currently studying consciousness all agree on one thing, that they really don't know what consciousness is. They're pretty sure that all forms of consciousness transcend the physical body. What is not accepted by Spiritual people generally is that the subconsciousness is far larger and more powerful than the consciousness. What is often not even thought about is what we are conscious of, and what we ignore doesn't make us even more conscious. Ignoring psychology and neurology doesn't make anyone more Spiritually conscious, it merely makes them more egoic and far less Spiritual. Spirituality in that context simply becomes a goldfish bowl.

The other problem is that while science can encompass religion or Spirituality, Spirituality has difficulty encompassing science. That's a shame really because that is probably the best argument a God-believer can have to argue the existence of God. Dontcha just love the irony? It's crazy. According to Penrose (A Nobel Prize-winner) and Hammeroff, the human brain has been 'designed' to be quantum capable. That means our brains are already entangled with the field of probability that is also God, the Akashic records, collective consciousness...... So while Spirituality is trying so hard to tell itself it's awesome it's ignoring how awesome we are. Isn't that bonkers?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hey Greenslade,

You know it seems to me in many ways people express what God is to him/her and then base why it exists upon these.

God when placed in words become an expression of ideas, thought, experiences, but to one who may have other such things that may not concur it may not make sense. For what is all this God talk based on anyways?

If it be formless, ethereal, that which is unknown, then how can it be explained I way that is not egotistical?

So, one may say be still and know I Am God. Which points to what? The one asking, does it not? So in this sense it makes sense that all this talk is more reflecting each other, then it is about brining a difinitive answer in regards to God. The irony may be this is answering the question through the many expressions. There is is no one right or wrong answer, for they all answer the question.

God has been created or we have become conscious of it because we created the ideas, passed along the experiences, written about it. Does it make God so? In a way to me it does. Is God an entity of some kind?

Yes, life is the spiritual journey. Everything is of spirit. Take away the preaching and how it should be. Look at how it is being and in this it is all Spirit experiencing right along with this human being. In this sense it is spiritual and a journey.

To look further in my way is to be curious. Not necessarily know what may be around the bend or even if anything is. To have interest in life and at times to have interest in what others may think or know. Otherwise seems a bit boring.
Gives the ol' brain box something to imagine and ponder on. Life is a wonder and nature always has something to show.

Even if it be gratitude for being given another day to live. So, is not always looking beyond myself, but learning more of myself, others, and the universe.
It is all spiritual if taken that way. It can lift the heart and at times break it too.
But, all of the experience and what adds to the consciousness and the stories carried on.
Yes, sometimes it is hearing nothing more then my own breath.

Hi there Moonglow

The Tao Te Ching said it best, and depending on the translation you read -
"The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao
The Tao is the mother of all things."

So when God is omniscient, omnipotent and all the other words that are used to define what God is, isn't that not what God is? The definitions and descriptions come from us, we are the source of that consciousness and we are wholly and completely incapable of even coming close to understanding who or what God is. It's a good thing that I'm a fan of irony.

While we're talking about God and trying to tell ourselves how Spiritual we are by formulating and expressing here in the forums, what's really going on? In trying to look clever, Spiritual or anything else haven't we completely missed the point?

If we're not talking about ourselves as God then are we talking about God at all? Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is already within you, what does that mean? If it's all God's creation then aren't we of God, isn't everything of God? Isn't there nothing that is not God?

We're not listening to ourselves Moonglow. We're inventing this egioc narrative and we're following that through as if it's some kind of fact of our existence. It makes us feel better if we tell ourselves that we can spout forth all this wisdom and we can't see how little wisdom there really is. What people do for that dopamine hit, eh?

There comes a time when words and beliefs don't matter any more, for me anyway. I enjoy the forums sometimes but often it feels more like a dressing-up and pretending session more than anything else. I become frustrated sometimes because the words I need to express things as I perceive them simply don't exist. The word 'Spiritual' becomes meaningless after a time and everything falls away from there. If there is nothing that is not God/Spirit then really what's the point of using the words, and if we are listening to Lao Tzu it's a dumb idea anyway.

Why can't we simply exist, Moonglow, without all of this charade?

[Lolly]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Why can't we simply exist, Moonglow, without all of this charade?

Yes, yes, yes....the magic is quite simply to just be