THE ONE FROM WHOM NOUGHT CAN BE SAID.

[Goldcup7]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I don't see any a precise meaning in "It is timelessly self aware" so I left that out of the quote. Not sure what "it" is referring to.

Thanks, Maisy. It seems I slip into using the term 'it' when I refer to That Which Is. Self Awareness itself.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Goldcup7

Imo to know the unknowable we must let go of thinking that we can know it, and just let it be.

Another thought that came to me is "God" in not in the above sentence. So maybe a question for some would be "Can one know or experience God by thinking?" Seems like a lot of spiritual thought revolves around the idea of "not thinking" or not focusing the attention on mind or thought. Meditation, mindfulness, chanting, emptying the mind etc. Maybe one cannot bring about self realization by thinking, but maybe by observing or being more aware they can. Choiceless awareness as one teacher put it.

I think if one is "thinking one can know it" it means they are currently not knowing it or experiencing "it." Instead of "thinking" one can be practicing "awareness" of the now as it is letting thoughts come and go and not creating "thinking" as something present in the now.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Goldcup7

but God is right here.

I think in one sense that is true.

To me it seems like the word "God" has very different meanings for different people. Someone in that book "Journey Of Souls" commented that in the "astral world" they refer to "it" as "the source" and not "God" as the word "God" brings so much baggage with it.

I see it in a complicated way I think. I see our world here as being made up of all kinds of "stuff." Some stuff of higher vibration and some of lower vibration. Then I think we ourselves, consciousness, can be of a higher or lower vibration. Maybe due to what we are focusing on or identified with at any given moment. Like if we are in tune with love, openness, ect or all wrapped up in hate or anger or fear etc. I've noticed some places have a type of vibration to them. One can feel a difference between standing in one house or place or another. Maybe the vibrations of those that live there alter the places.

So to me "God" may not be right here if we are aligned with lower vibration stuff. Here yes as consciousness, but we as consciousness can be associating and experiencing and projecting lower energy stuff. I think we are all "God" like some have said. The substance of conscious awareness (what we are) I see like "atoms" that make up the "entirety" or the source of "God." But then the source is an "entity" as well I believe from my experience. But I don't think me being a "pure awareness" creates an experience of "God" or the source in it's entirety. I don't think we are at a level to even come close to experiencing such an entity. I think we have a long way to go to actually experience the source as it is. But then I think our little possible experience is pretty profound and mind expanding from our vantage point.

I think we can potentially experience our true nature, our true self, which is wholly composed of aspects of the source and connected to it. Which is a huge experience. I think in that sense "God" can be right here. We can manifest and project our true nature, the nature of the source, and experience from that nature.

But then I think "God" or the source, as we advance we can experience that totality more and more. As humans, I think that is pretty limited. Sensing the smallest edge of the source would give one the feeling of expanding into infinity I think. If the average human IQ is like 60 to 150, I would think "God's IQ" would be in the trillions or much higher. I think scientists said a human can be aware of 4 things at once. I would assume "God" or the intelligent source is aware of everything that exists in our reality at once or some version of that. Then also I believe as we gain in awareness the source of us does as well. So I see it as growing and evolving into something "greater" through our very own expansion as I see that as our purpose in being created in the first place.

A "God" expanding into awareness of the infinite...

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Choiceless awareness as one teacher put it.

A good article on choiceless awareness (do-nothing meditation).

https://deconstructingyourself.com/d...editation.html

I call it the “Do Nothing” technique (which is the name given to it by meditation teacher Shinzen Young), but the same method (or something quite similar) is called shikantaza (“just sitting”) in Zen Buddhism, dzogchen in Tibetan Buddhism, and is practiced in Advaita Vedanta (nondual Hinduism) as well. The famous teacher Krishnamurti called it “choiceless awareness.”

Jon Kabat-Zinn calls it resting in awareness.

Originally Posted by Maisy

"Can one know or experience God by thinking?"

I find the best discourse on this is the Kena Upanishad and this translation has commentary.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacreds...arama/kena.asp

That which cannot be thought by mind, but by which, they say, mind is able to think: know that alone to be the Brahman, not this which people worship here.

If thou thinkest "I know It well," then it is certain that thou knowest but little of the Brahman (Absolute Truth), or in what form He (resideth) in the Devas (minor aspects of Deity). Therefore I think that what thou thinkest to be known is still to be sought after.

The disciple said: I do not think I know It well, nor do I think that I do not know It. He among us who knows It truly, knows (what is meant by) "I know" and also what is meant by "I know It not."

[Still_Waters]

EXCERPT POST 8:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I don't care about knowing myself
or some image I was made of or what's 'below'....I just care about
The One Whom nought can be said...and so far so good!

If one doesn't care about knowing one's self and/or one doesn't know one's self, what might that suggest about that one's understanding of "The One Whom Nought can be said"?

Could that understanding of "The One Whom Nought can be said" simply be a projection of one's own conditioning ... conscious or otherwise ?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

If one doesn't care about knowing one's self and/or one doesn't know one's self,
what might that suggest about that one's understanding of "The One Whom Nought can be said"?

Could that understanding of "The One Whom Nought can be said" simply be a projection of one's own conditioning ...
conscious or otherwise ?

Don't know - don't care, Still Waters!
I'm happy drinking in the Love from 'The One' and being shown
what that Father God or The All That Is wants me to experience about Reality.
(Trying to avoid saying the easy to type 'He'.)
If 'that Being' wants to reveal to me we are one and the same...ok.
But, I make it no secret - I want to taste the sugar...I really don't want to 'be' the sugar.

WHICH, in itself, says - I do not belong in the Non-duality section... and probably should bow out!

Non-duality is great, seeking that as an experience is great, experiencing your self as The Self is great ....
it's just not my desire....I like being bathed in the Love and Presence of the Creator and especially loving 'Him'...that's just me.

I wasn't thinking when I posted this would steer 'away' from Non-duality, I apologize.
I LIKE the Divine Romance, the Cosmic Dance of Lover and Beloved, I do!
I better get outta here before people get mad at me!!!

[Goldcup7]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

it's just not my desire....I like being bathed in the Love and Presence of the Creator and especially loving 'Him'...that's just me.

Hey, nothing wrong in that. Love is oneness, after all.

[Goldcup7]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I see it in a complicated way I think. I see our world here as being made up of all kinds of "stuff." Some stuff of higher vibration and some of lower vibration. Then I think we ourselves, consciousness, can be of a higher or lower vibration.

Lots of interesting stuff to consider there, Maisy.

I see it as the vibration happens within Consciousness and is made of Consciousness, like ripples on an infinite pond. Our core being is Pure Consciousness. The vibrations of the world can seem to be higher or lower expressions of God/Pure Consciousness/That Which Is. The closer the vibration energy is to Pure Consciousness the more refined and clear it is. Till that realisation of Pure Clarity, which is what the world is really made of.

It is this Pure Clarity or clear knowing that I feel is different to human knowledge. It is at that pure level of just knowing and being, that is Pure Consciousness itself, beyond any sense of form or vibration. Imo Complete Pure Consciousness is who we are.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Non-duality is great, seeking that as an experience is great, experiencing your self as The Self is great ........I like being bathed in the Love and Presence of the Creator and especially loving 'Him'...that's just me.

It reminds me of the 3 paths of yoga described in the Bhagavad Gita.

The Three Yogas or Trimārga are three paths mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita for the liberation of human spirit. They are:

Karma Yoga or the Path of Action (Karma-mārga)
Bhakti Yoga or the Path of Devotion (Bhakti-mārga) to Ishvar (God)
Jnana Yoga or the Path of Knowledge (Jñāna-mārga)

Loving and "communicating mentally" with some conceptual representation of "God" (Jesus for Christians, Buddha for some Buddhist's, Krishna for Hindu's etc) would be Bhakti Yoga I think. I suppose one could also talk to their spirit guides if not really belonging to a religion.

I think Jnana Yoga would describe those seeking self knowledge and liberation or a change in consciousness through self understanding and not God worship. Those letting go of ego or trying to be free of "mind" or thinking. Seeking a non-dualistic experience and way of being without being "religious."

But then these "divisions" from the Gita can overlap I think. Everyone is an individual and unique. Like I could not believe in any religion based deity and still know the divine nature of the source and those it inhabits. I could also "know" through logic that great advanced beings must exist in some reality. I could also "love" and respect great loving and selfless people.

More merging of these ideas. Take a person who surrenders to some image of God. Seems to me they too can be altering their consciousness in the same way a person is who approaches it through an idea or understanding of transcending thought and thinking. So in a way, it's possible the person who "surrenders" to God is achieving the same thing as one who has no worship of a God but focuses on pure awareness or observation and understanding of oneself.

All of this changes "action" so I think the same realities and truths can be approached in different ways with the same results. The "differences" I think are more language based than actual. But then I think it depends on the "person." Like one who claims to surrender to God could be a big ego. The same with one teaching non-duality. I think what matters is only my state of being and consciousness. What others do or believe does not matter. Then also what we do I think is more important than what we believe.

A lot of people believe in God and are violent. Many who don't believe in God are also violent. In the end it is about who and what we are as that sets up our vibration and nature and that determines our experience and destiny and even where we belong and incarnate or not.

I think inner and outer peace can be found in many ways. I think there is no "right" or one way to get there. One just needs to find a way to get there. Anyway that works for them.

[Goldcup7]

These may equate. There is the path of service, the path of worship and the path of self inquiry.
Imo they all lead to the heart of oneness.