God created evil,

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The scripture in Isaiah 45:7 uses the word LORD (Yahweh).
The scripture in Genesis 1:31 uses the word God (Elohim).

This is apples and oranges.
What does this have to do with the very straight fwd and simple first post?
I'm missing it. What is the link?

It does show the many contradictions that are in the Bible, yes, if that was your point.

Should we bring up Jehovah-Nissi, Jehovah-Jireh, Adonai, El Shaddai..and the 90 other names, too?
How would that give more light on God creating evil ...along with peace, tho?
Thank you.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

How does creating 'evil' fit into 'full good, very good'. ?

We are talking about philosophy right. Philosophy is a systematic study of general and fundamental questions concerning topics like existence, God, reason, knowledge, value, mind, good and bad, and language and so on. It can be a rational and critical inquiry that may reflect on its own methods and assumptions. Formal logic is a subject within the broad topic of philosophy. Religious beliefs fall within the topic of philosophy.

All the huge philosophy questions that have been around a very long time. What made us? Why were we made? Why are we here? Why do we exist? What is our purpose? What happens when we die? What are we if not the body? Why do we do bad things? What are we supposed to do or be?

Religions are just organized groups that come up with "formal" or set answers to all of these very old philosophy questions. A lot of religions or philosophies invent ideas of bad beings like Satan etc to explain the existence of bad stuff as a philosophical "problem" is how can a "good God" create or do bad things? So like the story Lucifer was thrown out of heaven and is in charge of earth etc. People would be like, oh ok that explains the bad stuff on earth. Original sin is another idea that attempts to explain why humans do bad things to each other. The story of eve eating the forbidden fruit disobeying God thus incurring a punishment, being thrown out of Eden or paradise. So then the philosophy answer is bad things happen or exist because we are disobeying God or not doing or being what God wants. We are not pleasing God in some way, thus the invention of animal sacrifice etc. Jesus, the Lamb of God, is seen as a sacrifice for our sins etc.

Religions are very complex philosophical belief systems. The creation of evil for example becomes "good" if it leads to some good outcome. To get us to follow "God" for example. To believe in God. Jesus's death on the cross was for a good purpose in the belief system. It resulted in something good or needed.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

....... Apples and Oranges.
The scripture in Isaiah 45:7 uses the word LORD (Yahweh).
The scripture in Genesis 1:31 uses the word God (Elohim).

Originally Posted by sky

I'm not referring to the different Genesis stories. According to the Bible God said He saw His creation as very good, very very good etc: how is 'evil' good....

In Post #31, you quoted Genesis 1:31 which is part of the first creation account and that chapter speaks only of God (Elohim).

In Post #1, you wrote about Isaiah 45:7 which uses LORD in that verse and uses LORD (Yahweh) thru out that chapter except, it appears, in one place.

To me, you were speaking of the LORD (Yahweh) in Isaiah 45:7 and in Genesis 1:31, you were speaking about God (Elohim).

For example, when I look at the God (Elohim) accounts and the LORD (Yahweh) accounts about the Great Flood, this becomes more apparent that it looks like 2 different entities are being discussed. I also feel that later this style of writing was greatly improved on and was used when the Talmud was written.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45. Verse 7.

Some other translations don't use the word evil:

NRSVA
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.

and

NIRV
I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.

Seems like the general idea the prophet Isaiah may have been getting at is God makes everything. Good and bad things that happen to us and exist so one better be good or else!

Isaiah 1 is all about "A rebellious nation" or those not obeying God and their punishments.

Isaiah 1:2 Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth!
For the Lord has spoken:
“I reared children and brought them up,
but they have rebelled against me.
7 Your country is desolate,
your cities burned with fire;
your fields are being stripped by foreigners
right before you,
laid waste as when overthrown by strangers.

From my reading of other parts of Isaiah it seems to me the word "evil" was probably not a good translation: Like the verse below shows Isaiah's idea here was God will do bad things to you if you don't believe in God and follow God.

1:19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

The threats against the non-believers are clear...

1:27 Zion will be delivered with justice,
her penitent ones with righteousness.
28 But rebels and sinners will both be broken,
and those who forsake the Lord will perish.

So I think the passage was something like "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things." in the original language.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think the fossil evidence is pretty clear. Like all the ape/human hybrids that died off. Why would a God create something that did not make it due to various flaws?

To me, the two creation accounts are theories that were brought forth and preserved in the Bible. Evolution is in of itself a theory so just in these 2 sentences, we have referenced 3 theories on how we got here.

As for Isaiah 45:7: that verse is from a Chapter in the Bible that I claim has a tremendous amount of information not found in other places of the Bible. That account, it appears, was written by those who seem to believe and follow Yahweh which in English gets translated as LORD. In my opinion, this group is different from the other group that speaks of Elohim (God).

[Maisy]

I think the answer from Isaiah is pretty clear. It "evil" was invented or done by God as punishment for non-believers. Not creating "good and evil" as a general concept but good things or bad (evil) things done to you by God.

More from Isaiah

1:24 Therefore the Lord, the Lord Almighty,
the Mighty One of Israel, declares:
“Ah! I will vent my wrath on my foes
and avenge myself on my enemies.

1:31 The mighty man will become tinder
and his work a spark;
both will burn together,
with no one to quench the fire.”

So here you have God punishing non-believers and it is "good" because well, they are non-believers who have rejected God so they deserve it.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Some other translations don't use the word evil:

Very nicely done.

I hope your research brings more clarity to others.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

So here you have God punishing non-believers and it is "good" because well, they are non-believers who have rejected God so they deserve it.

I would say your research is paying off.

If you start at the first verse in that chapter: you have a non-Jewish believer being used by the LORD in which he will destroy Babylon and release the Jews in captivity to go back to their homeland, if they want to.

This chapter reminds me of what Jesus said when being executed. “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out” (Luke 19:40).

[Miss Hepburn]

Hey, sky..check this out...from Sparrow on evil!
https://spiritguidesparrow.wordpress...14/11/01/evil/

[Maisy]

This translation makes more sense when you read all of Isaiah. He seemed to be a "fire and brimstone" type of preacher.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

See how it differs from the king James translation:

KJ21
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.

The translations are all over the place but on the same theme: create evil, create disasters, creating calamity, create woe are common translations. But then it's not "bad" if God is doing it as a punishment for non-believers eh.

"I am God, the only God there is. I form light and create darkness, I make harmonies and create discords. I, God, do all these things."

Now days some old and new philosophies try to get away from the "God is punishing us" idea like the idea of karma. It's not a being punishing us, it's our own actions and the impartial laws of karma. But it still is pushing the idea of punishment for our actions or beliefs. Have a relationship with God you get good things in your life. Don't have a relationship with God have bad things happen to you. God rewards those who love him etc. Same general ideas applied or conceptualized in different ways. Everyone wants love, success, money, good health, good fortune, so there will always people selling a method or technique to get such things and people willing to try anything.

I myself tried out different ways of "being" and found some unexpected good things happened and I was like..."oh is this working?" "Am I being rewarded somehow by staying in this state of consciousness?" A lot of people talk about how their lives have changed in various great ways through belief and other things.

I have no doubt what we do and are will impact our current situation and future situation but then also we may be "due" some bad experiences for learning or karmic purposes. So make the best of what cards you have been dealt. If you end up in a volcano as a tourist the day it explodes, well that's life. Things happen.